Science in Islam, Part 3: Ash’ari predestination


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BAKU – For many centuries the Islamic World was at the forefront of scientific achievement. Yet, in modern times, the level of education has declined to such an extent that on the average, Muslim-majority countries have 9 technicians, engineers and scientists per thousand people. For comparison, the global average stands at 41 per thousand people.

To understand this phenomenon we must explore the past. In the previous episodes, we explained how the Inquisition of Ibn Hanbal and the Anarchy at Samarra, ignited the disintegration of the Abbasid Empire. It is during this era that religious and political developments intertwined and set the stage for a new group of theology, which would forever change Islamic civilisation.

Sari Gelin (folk song)
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  1. ikraa2000 says:

    have we ever isolate an Atom in our present day? Or it's based on models with electrons circulating a nucleus comprising of protons and neutrons. Freemasons has infiltrated most religions since ages.

  2. RitaMHH says:

    Boleh percaya ke source video ni?

  3. Ahmad Osama says:

    Happy to be an Asharite!!!
    And ashari are compatibalists while Mutazilites are libertarians and we all which one is stronger dont we?

  4. drkshdw7 says:

    Great job, I'm really enjoying the series!
    One correction tho, the Ja'fari school of thought covers both theology and jurisprudence. Tho espousing rationalism and free will, it wasn't influenced by the Mu'tazila, rather they grew more or less together. The Ja'fari school is named after Imaam Ja'far al Saadiq (as), a contemporary and teacher of the founder of the Hanafi school a generation before Imaam ibn Hanbal.

  5. Konnor Ternus says:

    So according to Shirvan who is clearly Muslim or at least has a bias towards Islam that is typical of Muslims, the Crusades were caused by Christian pilgrimages, and the Dark Ages have no cause worth mentioning.

    How about this, Muslim conquests of half the Mediterranean coastland led to a collapse of Christian economies. The CHRISTIAN/GREEK centers of learning in Syria and Egypt were captured by Muslims and this repository of knowledge and human capital which was subverted to Islam fueled the so called “Islamic Golden Age.” A more accurate characterization would be an era of continued Greek and Persian learning.

    If Muslims had not conquered the Christian coasts of the Levant and North Africa, then there would have been no Dark Ages in Europe, no age of scientific advancement under Muslim rule, and no Crusades to take what Muslims stole by murder and enslavement.

    Also Shirvan idiotically calls the Rashidun redistribution of plunder “the first welfare state,” as if the welfare state as we understand it is funded by the theft and sale of foreigners and their property.

    Shirvan ignores Greek and Roman welfare policies that were not financed primarily by conquest. Shirvan constantly over emphasizes Muslim innovation and accomplishment while down playing the Greek Giants and forced converts who gave the actual context for so called “Muslim science.” Let’s not pretend that denying access to public offices, grants, and trade and scholarship opportunities amounts to anything short of forced conversion. Being given the choice between third class citizenship and conversion is not freedom of religion or a free choice, coercion is plainly being used, and was used for the entirety of Muslim history. The reason that the Middle East is practically devoid of Christians is because of these coercive practices by Muslims who want to portray themselves as benevolent founders of science.

    #typical #biased #muslim

  6. 66 SixSix says:

    You people talk like you were there

  7. Amar Ma'ruf says:

    Do you mention sources and footnotes somewhere I just can’t see it?

  8. Amazing Ahmad says:

    Quran is ahead of science, it's a book of signs not science

  9. Amazing Ahmad says:

    for how deep we think is a matter of thought because like in Quran in surah naml there's a incident where ants do communicate which seemed funny to mutazilte because at that time it was not discovered that ants can also do communicate like humans but now we know it was a true incident so rationalism failed.

  10. Amazing Ahmad says:

    are Islam and rationalism same thing.?

  11. Ryan. says:

    Leaders who were not elected were not "Khalifa" or "Caliphs". They were Kings or Emprors

  12. 21dolphin123 says:

    this would be much better if you pointed out the areas you are talking about with a light or arrow

  13. Delmon says:

    very amazing and informative channel it would me nice to supply the videos with the sources

  14. JEIL says:

    how can actual history be deemed too controversial? youtube is failtube.

  15. Frida B says:

    Have you guys considered putting all episodes of “Science in Islam” together in a podcast? It would be really nice 🙂

  16. Rohit C says:

    @CaspianReport seems to be on a mission to prove FAKE contributions of Islam in Science that they has to do 5 videos about it. I have studies history and confidently say that Islam has had absolutely NO original contributions to science. However arab trader did take science from other parts of the world and translate it into arabic and falsely claimed it their own e.g. Algebra from India, Astronomy from Greece, Medicine from China, etc all of which was developed before the birth of Muhammed!! Just google "Sulbha Sutras" for example.

  17. Mykill Mielia says:

    Found it even more boring than video 2 (I liked video 1 though), because it is so few about science and so much about history of powers or political history.

  18. mathiso01 says:

    Sounds like the liberals took over..and eventually proved to be cause a decline in practical thought and application.

  19. Abhilash Kesav says:

    It is a sad and tragic demise of reason, your voice captures it amazingly.

  20. TangomanX2008 says:

    Here is what I don't get. If these Islamic scholars saw a problem with the idea that atoms with independent properties had their own causal powers because this idea was inconsistent with Predestination, weren't there attempts to overcome this in such a way that didn't stifle science? For instance, John Calvin whose theological movement is characterized by its strong views on Predestination, didn't seem to see the same problem with atoms having their own properties do. Second, wouldn't a mechanistic view successfully address concerns concerning Predestination, or perhaps a Newtonian view of matter? It seems like they were so tantalizingly close to these types of developments. In fact, I bet that had an alien species been witness to the state of the sciences in the Islamic world at that time they probably would have expected such a development.

    Also, since they were so big on the ancient Greeks, couldn't try to overcome the apparent inconsistencies involving the properties of matter by analyzing causation in terms of Aristotle's four types of causation (material cause, formal cause, efficient cause, final cause)? They must have been aware of this, why didn't it help?

  21. ico tonchev says:

    11:37 Turkish nations such as the bulgars ??????? I mean you eider just read a name and did not care to check it or i hope you meant something else .Bulgarians were never and will never bee turks although we were been under their rule for 500 years we are a completely distinct nation with so much history and culture from before the turks .

  22. KOP END says:

    the muslims were so concerned and caring for science and helping society. they should have concentrated on making guns and weapons like the west.

  23. Rabbany says:

    so ibn hanbal destroyed everything

  24. aryan clair says:

    Islam is a lie religion nothing in Islam Quran zero knowledge in Quran zero science in Islam

  25. Moustafa El-Halawany says:

    Where is part 4?!

  26. Ma To says:

    Just discovered your channel. Great videos! On the question why there are so many uneducated people in Muslim countries there is obviously other reasons. One is natural resources. If you have alot of resources, you don't need educated people. Many muslim countries have oil or other valuable minderals they can exploit.
    Watch CPGgrey's "rules for rules" on this. Anyways, keep up the good work.

  27. casper Splidsboel says:

    SO final conclusion. Science progress despite islam, not because of it. More science less islam.

  28. Why tho? says:

    Very educational. Thanks for the videos.

  29. 50043211 says:

    And there you have it at around 4 minutes, the problem with all dogmatic religions "Reason must be subservient to revelation". No progress can be made with such a mindset!

  30. Dr. M M Audi says:

    This is a nice piece, however, the attitude of the Muslim ummah to science and research was influenced by several factors. it wasn't as simplistic as shirvan will put it here. Firstly, the Muslim ummah were always given an opportunity to hear all sides of the debate and reach an opinion. where the majority shared a similar opinion, then the ummah gradually followed that opinion. to begin with, the two holy cities of makka and madina had never been shia in ideology. the general belief is that the population had either been forced to reject shia, or had reneged from their allegiance to Ali. neither view is accurate. just like the ashari vs muutazila debate was taken to the courts of public opinion, so was the matter on shiasm vs sunni. the result was that the muslims themselves reach the conclusion to accept a certain debate or to reject it. this is truth about the popularity of sunni islam over shia, and also the popularity of ashari over muutazila. shirvan omitted to mention that the muutazilla doctrine had been an official state doctrine of the abbasids for over 100years before it was replaced with ashari. secondly, there were other factors that contributed to the loss of interest in science and research in the muslim ummah. for one, there was the debate on philosophy between alghazali on one hand and the other muslim intellectuals on the other such as ibn sina and alfarabi. now it must be understood that philosophy was not simply regarded as a debate on logic and prepositions, it included mathematics and other branches of science at the time. the work of alghazali on the incoherence of philosophers left an indelible mark on the muslim umma. more than the rejection of muutazila ideology, the work of alghazali sealed the faith of the muslim intellectuals from adventurous scholarship (where the quest for knowledge led an apt muslim pupil to venture anywhere in search of knowledge) to the pious scholarship( where a muslim pupil is motivated to gain knowledge for the sake of worship). it must be stated here that the intention of alghazali was not to dissuade learning, but he laid a sincere premise in his works. that since worshipping Allah is the purpose of human existance, then it will require knowledge to accomplish it. alghazali went further to categorise knowledge in to 3 major groups. the first is the knowledge of the deen or religious studies. here we have subjects such as fiqh or islamic jurisprudence, kalam or islamic theology, arabic grammer or lugga and nahwu, balagha or rhetoric ect. in the second group, we have mathematics, medicine, chemistry and the wide philosophy etc. in the third group was astrology, divination, siannce, palmistry, studies in the occult and esoteric beliefs. for alghazali, a muslim should reject the third group because it corrupts the mind and soul, also, it is prohibited in islam as forms of magic. the second group is useful but a muslim should not waste his time on them. the first group is the best because it brings one closer to his Lord. therefore, alghazali demonstrated how to seek useful knowledge and the majority of the muslim population accepted this. thirdly, the rise of sufism which insisted on purification of the soul through devotional acts completely laid to rest the role of science and technology in the muslim world. it should be noted that the muslim umma found itself at a crossed road where they had to chose between materialism or spiritualism. the like of alghazali and the emergence of various sufi tariqas led the ummah towards spirituality. therefore, the west and other parts of the world were accepting secularism and athiesm, while the majority of the muslim umma rejected godlessness and hung to islamic beliefs. surprisingly, the scientific basis for the destruction of religious belief such as the stages of creation of the universe in the bible, like in genesis when life and plants and animals were created before the sun, as the sun was necessary for photosynthesis of plants, and the way other religions fell victim of science was very different from islam. for islam, the quran is the word of God, and God knew everything. the quran mentions the stages of development of a fetus in the womb. it was very accurate. it seemed as if islam was impervious to the power off science unlike other religions.
    finally, i encourage shirvan to abandon a narrow and shia interpretation and conception of history. there are facts abound. the intention of shia scholar, intellectuals and followers has been to demonize sunni islam as responsible for every woe befalling the umma, from the tragedy in karbala to the israeli aggression. once more, shirvan presented a clueless and despotic sunni abbassid in contrast to the enterprising and progressive fatimid shia. i will mention two things about that here. one, the fatimids practised a form of esoteric religion that on draws on islam. the population of egypt refused to accept that from of religion notwithstanding the emense missionary activities of the ismailis and the fatimid regime. theregime fell to the hero of islam, saladin. surprisingly, only shias and morden day knight templers regard saladeen as a failure. two, the only way Iran bacame shia was as a result of the ethic cleansing and genocide perpetrated by the safavid against sunnis. the sunnis were killed and shias from across the world were invited to settle in iran. we also remember nadir shah who converted to sunni islam. the napoleon of the east. had he not died due to assassination, he would have reconverted iran to sunni islam. sooner or later, we will have a united umma, and it will surely come to pass.

  31. Hokum Isolated says:

    The only science advancement in Islam, is a BOMB. HALAHUHAKBARRRRR>>>>

  32. mehboob gani says:

    we need madhkhalis, qutubis, ikhwanis, hikimiyas, and also some tabliqhees of elyasee and zakaris.

  33. Krimo krimovitch says:

    the mongols were the biggest cause of the decline of the islamic world by burning millions of books and killing thousands of muslims scientists

    it's like the fall of rome for europe

  34. Taha Galal says:

    it's a history os science in baghdad more than a history of science in islam.

  35. daledheyalef says:

    Where is the footage used in this video from? Is it a TV show? A movie? I can't figure it out and I'm really curious.

  36. JWPemperor says:

    I like your vids .. always .. but I don't like Fakes .. 8:36 upper-right .. these mountains are NEVER possible.
    If this would be right the Himalayas would be over 100km high
    Mount Everest is not even 9 km high the elevation wouldn't be visible over that distance

  37. maddame... says:

    Science is Islam. Like it or not, that's a fact.