17 (Dehler & Robert Baty) Questions for Christians TV Show, Part 2 of 2


In this episode, Bernie Dehler (former Christian, now atheist) has a discussion with Robert Baty (Christian) about critical thinking. Can atheism be demolished by simple logic? Robert thinks so, and discusses it with Bernie.

Feel free to leave a thoughtful comment. Comments that are rude, contain cussing, etc. will be deleted.

More info on the presenters:
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Bernie is the author of “Modern Science and Philosophy Destroy Christian Theology,” which can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/lmlqy56 . You can also find him on Twitter here: www.twitter.com/BernieDehler and on Facebook here: www.facebook.com/Bernie-Dehler-467276896621775 .

Robert Baty has this website for more info:
1. Facebook page on this critical thinking exercise:
https://www.facebook.com/Atheism101CTE/

Other Baty pages:
1. Main webpage: http://kehvrlb.com/
2. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robert.baty.1
3. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KentHovindvRobertBatyTheGreatDebate/

SecHummer

#christiantheology, #doctrinesofchristianity, #branchesoftheology, #christiandoctrines

14 Comments

  1. NoisySplatter says:

    It is sad that Baty thinks trying to knock down a strawman he is committed to making you defend is a valuable critical thinking exercise.

  2. Robert Baty says:

    Bwahahahahahaha!

    Did you catch that, Bernie.

    "SayNoToDogma" provided a further vindication for the claims I make for my Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Argument and Exercise, writing ipse dixit:

    – "Robert Baty has no idea what a valid syllogism is… Hahaha"

    and

    – "He also has no idea what a strawman is… Apparently."

    Now, I am wondering if he has anything substantive he thinks to add to actually back up his ipse dixit.

    I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath.

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  3. SayNoToDogma says:

    Robert baty has no idea what a valid syllogism is… Hahaha

  4. atheistmecca says:

    Bernie, everyone knows who you are. We don't need to hear it every time. Focus on your guests. πŸ™‚

  5. Shad Jones says:

    Why do these people move away from Texas? Why do they flock to Colorado?

  6. Shad Jones says:

    He's a very rational man. In order not to lose credibility with his Christian community he has to rationalize his beliefs in religion. He wants to belong. That is normal. I feel bad for these people who give up so much to belong. Wake up Christians! Secular morality and rational thinking are far better than the need for coformity and rationalizing out of date superstition.

  7. rageforthemachine says:

    That's funny I always thought Baty was an atheist because of his crusade against Sye Ten Bruggencate and presuppositionalism.

  8. Robert Baty says:

    I think you can go to the following link and access/download an audio file which is a presentation regarding the Campbell-Owen Debate from which my Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise/Argument derives.

    Gives some interesting details regarding the event.

    http://digitalcommons.acu.edu/sumlec_audio/740/

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  9. Cathy McMahan says:

    Robert is very confusing to me and doesn't make any sense. He needs to go read the history of Constantine and the council of nicea, a total of 318 "bishops, priests, deacons, subdeacons, acolytes and exorcists" gathered to debate and decide upon a unified belief system that encompassed only one god (An Apology for Christianity, op. cit.). By this time, a huge assortment of "wild texts" (Catholic Encyclopedia, New Edition, "Gospel and Gospels") circulated amongst presbyters and they supported a great variety of Eastern and Western gods and goddesses: Jove, Jupiter, Salenus, Baal, Thor, Gade, Apollo, Juno, Aries, Taurus, Minerva, Rhets, Mithra, Theo, Fragapatti, Atys, Durga, Indra, Neptune, Vulcan, Kriste, Agni, Croesus, Pelides, Huit, Hermes, Thulis, Thammus, Eguptus, Iao, Aph, Saturn, Gitchens, Minos, Maximo, Hecla and Phernes (God's Book of Eskra, anon., ch. xlviii, paragraph 36).

    Up until the First Council of Nicaea, the Roman aristocracy primarily worshipped two Greek gods-Apollo and Zeus-but the great bulk of common people idolised either Julius Caesar or Mithras (the Romanised version of the Persian deity Mithra). Caesar was deified by the Roman Senate after his death (15 March 44 BC) and subsequently venerated as "the Divine Julius". The word "Saviour" was affixed to his name, its literal meaning being "one who sows the seed", i.e., he was a phallic god. Julius Caesar was hailed as "God made manifest and universal Saviour of human life", and his successor Augustus was called the "ancestral God and Saviour of the whole human race" (Man and his Gods, Homer Smith, Little, Brown & Co., Boston, 1952). Emperor Nero (54-68), whose original name was Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus (37-68), was immortalised on his coins as the "Saviour of mankind" (ibid.). The Divine Julius as Roman Saviour and "Father of the Empire" was considered "God" among the Roman rabble for more than 300 years. He was the deity in some Western presbyters' texts, but was not recognised in Eastern or Oriental writings.

  10. Robert Baty says:

    For those who may not have noticed and want an easy reference, or may even want to submit their completed Exercise (i.e., a "yes" or "no" to 6 questions), here's the Argument and 6 questions in the Exercise. Yes, the questions are "yes" or "no" questions. If you can't bring yourself to agree with me and answer "yes", your default answer is "no". Discussion may follow according to the time and interest of the participant, me, and others.

    I have answered "yes" to all 6 questions. If you are not going to submit your "yes" or "no" to each question, you may not get much consideration from me in response to whatever it is you might have to say about it.

    ATHEISM 101 CRITICAL THINKING EXERCISE ARGUMENT

    MAJOR PREMISE:

    – IF (A) man was able to originate
    – the idea/concept of God through
    – the power of imagination,
    –
    – THEN (B) man did originate the
    – idea/concept of God through the
    – power of imagination.

    MINOR PREMISE:

    – (A) Man was able to originate the
    – idea/concept of God through the
    – power of imagination.

    CONCLUSION:

    – (B) Man did originate the idea/concept
    – of God through the power of imagination.

    ATHEISM 101 CRITICAL THINKING EXERCISE QUESTIONS

    Question #1:

    Do you think the Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise Argument is so constructed that;
    if its premises are true,
    then its conclusion will follow as true therefrom
    (i.e., that it is logically valid)?

    – Robert Baty: Yes
    – Exercise Participant: (Yes or No)

    Question #2

    Do you think that you can take the minor premise and conclusion of a logically valid β€œmodus ponens” form argument and construct the major premise therefrom?

    – Robert Baty: Yes
    – Exercise Participant: (Yes or No)

    Question #3

    Do you think that the Major Premise of the Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise Argument may be properly inferred and properly constructed from the Minor Premise and Conclusion of the argument?

    – Robert Baty: Yes
    – Exercise Participant: (Yes or No)

    Question #4

    Do you think that there are atheists who implicitly and/or explicitly believe the Conclusion of the Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise Argument to be true?

    – Robert Baty: Yes
    – Exercise Participant: (Yes or No)

    Question #5

    Do you think that there are atheists who implicitly and/or explicitly believe the Minor Premise of the Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise Argument to be true?

    – Robert Baty: Yes
    – Exercise Participant: (Yes or No)

    Question #6

    Do you think that there are atheists who implicitly and/or explicitly believe the Major Premise of the Atheism 101 Critical Thinking Exercise Argument to be true?

    – Robert Baty: Yes
    – Exercise Participant: (Yes or No)

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  11. Robert Baty says:

    Well, so far, it looks like the comments are a vindication of my little Exercise and the claims I make for it.

    Thanks for your time and interest, Bernie.

    Let me know of any interest in any followups regarding this subject or the subject of our previous discussion regarding Kent Hovind.

  12. john hammond says:

    Tell me Bernie, after debating this man did you need to go lie down in a dark room and take a headache pill?
    I have never felt sorry for a Christian apologist before but this man is just sad.

  13. C Rizzy says:

    Here you go Robert Baty:

    If there is no valid evidence for something's existence, then there is no reason to believe it exists
    There is no valid evidence of god’s existence
    Therefore there is no reason to believe that god exists

    If there is no reason to believe something exists, then there is no reason to believe something is not imaginary
    There is no reason to believe that god exists (conclusion of the prior argument)
    Therefore there is no reason to believe that god is not imaginary

    Your tactic against Bernie was to force him into a position of certainty where there could be none, thus the argument falls apart when worked backward.